snapped? (toru)
Today, reader DaveK let us know that Snapper cards have finally gone on sale at a couple of retailers in town, at least. They're also available, along with the card readers that allow WinIE types to do refills at home, from the Snapper website.
Of course there's been a few more teething troubles reported; difficult questions haven't been answered; not all buses (or drivers for that matter) seem to be enabled for the new technology; and retailers still don't seem all that fussed. Meanwhile, as Poneke has reported, the 10-trip tickets will be withdrawn from sale from August 29.
But while the whole thing seems very much a work in progress, we're just glad they've started on the rollout to us, the public transport punters. It's the Future™, you know.
So in the spirit of the week we're in, we'll offer some words of encouragement:
He ika kai ake i raro, he rāpaki ake i raro.
Snapettes: I like it. It's a very vibrant shade of red large amounts too.
And, Real Time Bus Information. That's what we want next. Not that we're, like, demanding or anything.
Aha, the real time bus info - definitely would be a great next-step ... Have many people filled in that online survey about that?
Talking to my missus about the real time bus info thing, she asked me whether those things could be solar powered (she's big into eco power currently, which isn't a bad thing)... I said I've no clue, so worth asking you lot?
I bought my shiny new Snapper last night, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Just a word of caution: the little pamphlets that the Snapettes were giving out last night say that you can buy and feed the cards "at any CityStop store, Kirkcaldies bookstore, Unistop, Toll NZ ticket office...", whereas the User Guide that comes with them just says "check our website". The latter is probably the better way to find out, as the little CitySTop takeaway down the east end of Courtenay Pl wasn't selling them.
The website lists plenty of places to buy, though it would be better to have more open after hours. And from that list, it looks like Mojo will be accepting Snappers soon: I'm sure that will make certain people happy :-) Though you know what would be really useful? Working across all public transport, including ferries, trains and cable car.
I got my Snapper at Pasta Pasta this week.
Snappered thus far:
Wishbone: the cashier was excited, I think I was their first Snapper customer.
Stagecoach: when I tagged off it didn't tell me my fare, just beeped and gave the me the green circle. I found this a little unsatisfying.
Things I'd like to see Snappered:
Wellington cable car
Wellington central library
The front gate to my apartment building
I came across Info for Retailers, which said that the Snapper charges for a minimum section when you snap on the bus, and the balance is deducted when you snap off. So maybe you only travelled one section, so no amount was deducted when you got off, so they didn't feel the need to show that information?
Question ...
Can a snapper card be blocked from being used on anything other than public transport? I want to supply them to team support / admin at work to hand out to staff who are going to meetings (less taxi usage). I would like to prevent abuse of the card ie. getting a mojo coffee on the way to the meeting.
Hmm, not sure I like this new card - it's got issues for the retailers selling it and/or using as cash payment (it's not being treated like cash but as a credit transaction).
Also ... what is it recording?
Does it know where you've been and what you've bought? Anyone????
Mike: it records A LOT. The transaction history on my Snapper (the one that I've registered on the website) shows the bus stops I hopped on and off at, and a bland line "Commerce" against the coffee and other stuff (although one would expect that more detail on this should eventually be shown to customers... as there's no doubt more detailed information will be being collected from retailers for billing purposes at the very least). This is not necessarily a bad thing, but we all should be aware of what's being collected.
It's at this point that you'll perhaps be wanting to check out the privacy policy here. And you'll find that all of this stuff gets associated with YOU in the Snapper databases only if you register on the website, which you only need to do if you want to see Online Balances, get transaction histories, and top up the card yourself (for a 2% fee, grrrrrrrr!).
If you find this all a bit of a concern, but still want/need to use Snapper, then just go to a Snapper retailer; buy the card with cash; use cash to top up; and your expectations of cashlike privacy-related behaviour from Snapper will be almost met (apart from being able to pass 5 bucks to your mate, at need).
I hear that you can register with just an email address, so my plan is to use noneofyourdamnedbusiness@snapper.co.nz or similar. Or if they need the address to send a password to, I'll use mailinator.
By the way, how many digits is a snapper number? Does it look sequential? Errr, just wondering.
I just registered my password. I got a confirmation email, but it didn't require a response.
When registering, they require a question and answer for identification (if you call their helpline). Some of the preselected questions are pretty major identification ones (date of birth, mother's maiden name) but others are less serious like favourite pet. And you can always make up an answer if you don't want to put that information out there.
I remember some comedian saying that he liked to use swear words as the answer to those questions, so when the helpline operator said "...and what's your pet's name?" you get to say "you're a cock-sucking motherfucker"
Ah, the usual pointless security questions. I wish the banks would learn that neither of these offer more than token security. Your PIN is many times more secure than either or both of these.
The swishy fern patterned buses must have GPS as there's an LCD screen with a feed of the bus' current location on a map (which cycles through with the security camera shots).
So that's the thing ... IF I want to use it like cash then go to the -- hang on, I've got cash in my pocket, why don't I just use CASH? But they, the ANZ and Wgtn bus company are going to penalise me for that. So what do I gain from this "cool-ness" ... a more expensive bus ride home.
And if you are an ANZ member and use your credit card (with any fancy email address) then they can work out who you are.
And if you use the same IP address (broadband anyone) then they can work out it is "probably" one person and do data magic on it - Google is in the European pooh because of exactly this.
So ... it's not really, if at all, "like cash" - we pay for their card, their data tracking, and their dropping of costs by giving them money (the cards aren't free are they?) and more importantly our data - think FlyBuys but no-ones really telling you you're being tracked.
Hmmm, I'm not so sure about this card really ... and it's because they're not telling us the whole story.
I'm with you on the privacy issues, but you are actually getting a cheaper ride home.
At $10 and living in Hataitai my card would be paid off in a couple of weeks, and the 25% discount would save me a couple of hundred a year.
And what you're giving them in return for the discount is payment in advance, same as now with their other concession schemes.
Tell you what though: I would like the Privacy Commissioner to make a statement. In theory, Snapper are not allowed to use your data for those kinds of nefarious datamatching without your consent; I would like to be sure they can't change the terms and conditions later and require your consent as a condition of issue ("when you use your Snapper you agree to let us ...").
Has anyone noticed the new ticketing machines that the drivers have. They make one hell of a racket, beeping away.
I'm also a bit annoyed that every time you have to put credit on your snapper there will be a 2% charge after October. Looking at the cost a monthly ticket still seems better value.
Yep, that incessant blooping (kind of like the old "pop-up video" noises) is unnecessary and irritating. The driver I had yesterday seemed to be having real problems with it, and was swearing away at the machine.
Mind you, he also seemed to be having problems with driving (accelerating and braking far too hard) and dressing. Call me old fashioned, but is a beanie and an Overstayer hoodie really appropriate for a bus driver? I know that Wellington isn't Milan (where the police are dressed by Valentino), but something more professional would be appreciated.
Clearly we should hedge against the cost of Snapper by buying Infratil shares.
I don't think I like this, you have to pay to get one, you're buggered if you forget to 'snap off', it's going to cost to top up, to use it, and you have to buy a plug if you want to put money on it from your credit card - and once you've used it, it doesn't tell you how much you have left.
Is anyone familiar with the bus ticketing system on the Mana buses? I think this is the best one by far. Its automatic, you can top up on the bus, and you get a print out telling you how much your fare was, and how much is left on your card. I'd dread snapping on, and getting refused because I had no money on my card. Admittedly you could only use it on buses, and nowhere else, but it was handy. And really, everyone uses eftpos cards for that anyways. The Snapper just seems like a dumbed down version of the eftpos card that you can use on the bus.
But I really don't use the bus that often, so I'd probably just use a 10 trip, and save myself all these little hidden costs.
Incidentally, I just did a little maths.
Obviously, I want to minimise the transaction fees that I pay Snapper, but if I load too much on to the card, they get all the interest that I should be earning for myself.
Assume that I can get 8% in a high interest call account.
Assume that I go two sections twice a day, it would cost 20.25 per working week with the new fares and a 25% discount.
Then with the Snapper charge of 25 cents per transaction, I should "feed" the Snapper with $81 every 4 weeks, because that's the point where the lost interest for me equals the transaction fee.
I'm quite serious about the Infratil shares. Those fees combined with the retailer percentage are going to be an amazing revenue stream for them.
What's the equivalent calculation for today's 10-trip tickets?
Remember that you only get a 20% fare discount for those; but then you don't get the 2% refill tax for DIY online, nor the $0.25 refill tax for retail refill.
I wonder if Snapper is actually cheaper now? (The fare discount, I think, was recently changed from 20% to 25%, and I wonder if this was the reason.)
The 10 trip tickets don't have a fee for purchasing them so there's nothing to minimise. Therefore you should only ever purchase them as you need them.
Bugger - just read that they will be getting rid of the 10 trips. I'd rather walk now!!!
It shouldn't be that hard! The fees all seem a little offputting, but I've been looking forward to these and I'll stick with them to see how they go. As an occasional bus user, ten-trips have always been a pain because you have to have a separate card for each number of zones, and they don't apply for city-section trips. I don't like lugging around a lot of change, so if I'm planning to take the bus I always have to ensure that I get some change from somewhere. If they end up being quicker than Eftpos (by saving the 10 seconds or so entering one's PIN) then they'll be great for things like takeaway coffee or bars where there's always time pressure for payments.
It does look like the implementation here has been problematic, but I wish it well. As I said earlier, the real advantage would come if it were rolled out across the whole PT network and perhaps taxis as well. It's bad enough at the moment that some bus services don't take Go Wellington 10-trips, but this should be a real opportunity to integrate PT across the whole Greater Wellington region.
The website won't send a Snapper to a PO Box. I guess I'll just use up my 10 trip ticket after all.
Well if you have to go pick it up from a P.O.Box anyway you'll probably be near somewhere that sells the card. surely?
No no, the postie delivers all our PO Box-addressed mail to our office. It just seemed simpler than scurrying out into the rain to search for one of these mythical retailers...
I bought a Snapper card from Kirks this evening and used it to get he bus home.
1. In the early days, when fewer people are using the cards, it's going to make getting on much quicker. While the person ahead of you is fumbling or change and waiting for the driver to bloop-bloop their ticket, I'll be in my seat, tagged on. Yeah.
2. Somehow I was anticipating that tagging off on exit would be really difficult. I imagined it would be an arduous process of waiting, somewhere between an eftpos transaction and using my swipe key at work. But all it involved was holding my card by the reader on the way out. Easy!
3. So, this Snapper thing. It's quite good, eh.
I'm liking the snapper, although the tag off is sometimes fast, sometimes slow. Huh?
What they need to do next is enable the auto-topup function so if your balance drops below $5 or so it automatically debits your CC. That would be incredibly useful, I always forget to buy bus tickets.
Robyn: I hope they raise all cash fares to around $5 to force people to use the Snapper. It's incredibly frustrating to watch one moron after another count out their 10 cent coins or expect change from a 20 when you are late for work!
I was a regular bus user in London where cash fares were significantly higher than Oyster fares. The buses were SO MUCH faster at bus stops, as almost everyone used Oyster.
Bring on the cashless society!
2 days now of using my Snapper card and it's been all gravy. The smallest glitch was a bus that came past with it's readers covered, but that was ok another showed up at the same time with readers blazing!
How do I know when I'm running low on credit though?
Then with the Snapper charge of 25 cents per transaction, I should "feed" the Snapper with $81 every 4 weeks, because that's the point where the lost interest for me equals the transaction fee.
I followed Stephen's advice btw, tho I got a strange look when I asked to put $81 on the card.
Heh. It would totally rock my world if there were lots of $81 transactions freaking out some bored datamining analyst.
Exactly that Tom: from what I can tell at shops you always get shown your balance; on the buses you get the balance (or an alert) only if the balance is less than $20.
On my bus this morning the Snapper was down so the driver gave everyone a free ride to town.
This morning I heard two guys on the bus talking about Snapper cards.
Guy 1: What do you think of those Snapper cards?
Guy 2: I was thinking of getting one, but I was on a bus last week and a guy was trying to use one and it kept going "Please try again, please try again, please try again." So I think I'll stick with my 10-trip."
Guy 1: Yeah, same.
Until october when you'll no longer be able to get 10 trips.
it seems to me that snappers work best for 2Zoners.
3 Zoners might as well just get a Gold pass still I think.
Not usually one to moan but you could say this evening I just snapped... Here's the email I sent to the Snapper team leader:
Hi there,
I am following up a phone call I made to your call centre this evening which failed to answer any of my questions. The lady on the phone politely suggested that I contact you regarding my query.
I purchased and topped up my Snapper card just yesterday and the three times I have tried to use it on the bus to/from Island Bay the machine has not been working. The first time I got on the bus the driver told me the machine was not working and allowed me to ride for free. The same thing happened this morning.
This evening when I tried to get the Number 1 Island Bay bus (at approximately 5pm) the driver refused to let me ride on the bus as the machine - once again - was not working. Ironically, the bus had a big Snapper insignia on the door and the driver himself had a Snapper badge on his jersey. However it seems the only snapping he was doing was at tired office dwellers trying to use their flash red cards to get home. I was told that unless I had cash I would have to wait for a bus to arrive that did have a machine that was working.
I now understand that the machines are being progressively rolled out but I would like to know the following:
Exactly how many buses have yet to have a machine installed? On what routes are these buses?
Where on the Snapper website/newspaper ads is the advice to carry cash in the event of the Snapper machine not working?
What instructions have drivers received in cases where a Snapper card or the Snapper machine does not work?
Why is the Snapper card not available at outlets that usually sell 10-trip bus cards?
I await your response,
I've seen lots more of the friendly Snapettes handing out little Snapper information pamphlets to commuters waiting for buses along the central bus streets.
From the snippets I've overheard, many people seem to have lots of questions about Snapper. And also - this may be useful for the regional council to know - I've heard some people asking the Snapettes for information about when the next bus is coming, what stop to get for what bus, etc.
It would just be better, though, if Snapper was actually fully, properly working when the promotion started.